TRANSCRIPT: Exclusive interview with Cannes breakout star Karla Sofía Gascón! ('Emilia Perez')
Here is the translation of the Spanish audio interview into English (Automated translation)
Welcome to Pop Culture Confidential, my first episode in Spanish. I am Christina Jeurling Birro and I had the honor of speaking with one of the big stars of Cannes this year, the fantastic Carla Sofía Gascón. As you might notice, my Spanish is not perfect, so please be patient.
The film Emilia Perez, directed by the Frenchman Jacques Auriad, has triumphed at Cannes. It is a musical film that tells the story of Rita, a lawyer in Mexico City. The drug trafficker Manitas hires her with a proposal: to help him leave the criminal organization and undergo gender reassignment surgery to become the woman he has always dreamed of being.
Both roles of Manitas and Emilia Pérez are played by the Spanish trans actress Karla Sofía Gascón, and she has been the sensation of Cannes. On Saturday, we will know if the film wins the grand prize at Cannes.
Karla Sofía Gascón talks to me about the film, her reactions to its themes, and what it was like to make a musical, the importance of this role and the film for a trans person, her story, and much more. Here is my conversation with Karla Sofía Gascón.
Thank you very much for being here with me and thank you so much for this film. Emilia Pérez has been a great success at Cannes, everyone is talking about the film, about you, and about the themes related to Mexico. First, I want to ask you, what surprised you about the reactions?
You know, you are the first person I'm going to tell this to. You can have many friends and buy all the applause in the world, but you can't buy people's tears and emotions with anything. Seeing two thousand people in the cinema applauding was wonderful, but seeing them cry was even more so. That seemed to me the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life. I had never experienced such a beautiful experience of seeing people in front of me, including actors, for example, the director of Anatomy of a Fall was in front of me. Yes, Justine Triet, everyone was there. Rocí de Palma was there, with big tears crying, and you think, well, you've touched the hearts of so many people, it's so wonderful, so beautiful, so special. It seemed to me, I don't like applause, to be honest, I can't stand it. I don't like being showered with compliments, I'm a person who, really, has never liked the idea of receiving praise or accolades, I mean, like everyone, I think it's better than being criticized, right?
But it always embarrasses me when they applaud me, which is why I told the cameraman, leave me alone, don't focus on me so much, you know? Just if not...
Yes, yes, of course, people were very moved! When you received the script and saw the themes and that it was a musical, what was your first reaction?
For me, it was like, what is this? I mean, do you want to make a musical about Mexican drug traffickers who change sex? In Spanish, you don't even know how to speak Spanish (director Audiard), and then you want to film it in Paris, what else do you want to do? So, when I read it for the first time, I thought, they're going to say no as soon as they hear me sing three times, and I don't know how to read sheet music, for example. So, I thought, these people are going to say, thank you very much, goodbye and good night, right? But little by little I convinced them that I could do it well.
And alongside Selma Gómez, Zoë Saldana, Edgar Ramírez, and Adriana Paz, who are wonderful and with whom I have worked very comfortably. But this film was made with a team of over two hundred people, I don't know how many we ended up being, because I lose count of how many have worked from the beginning to the end. And it’s wonderful to see the love with which everyone has worked, and I think that's reflected in the film, the love and the feeling it causes.
Because each of us has given our best, even the girls who could have said, I'm coming from Hollywood and I do what I want. No, everyone gave their all, the best they could. You can see it in the film.
Was it always the idea that you would play both roles, Manitas and Emilia?
No, it wasn't even the idea at the very beginning that a trans person would play the role. Initially, they wanted a cis woman and a cis man, and then they realized that making a film with that approach would be a catastrophic mistake, right? It would have been completely different and, what's more, I would have found it awful, like those old black-and-white films where white men painted their faces with boot polish to play black characters.I’m not saying that actors can’t play any role if they are well-prepared and good actors. But there are things that should be a turning point. It's like, you won't caricature me anymore, let’s not continue making fun of people, because there are trans actresses and actors who are wonderful, just like there are very bad ones, just like in any other group.
So, it's a matter of searching, and it found me. I gave my all. At first, they didn't want me to play Manitas either, they just wanted me to play Emilia. I had to convince them, I had to convince them and insist every day, saying that I could do it. They made molds of my face, did many makeup tests. I really like dubbing and giving voices to animated characters and things like that. So, I was very good at it, and I had that advantage, knowing that I wouldn't have a problem with the voice.
And with the voice, I quickly convinced them because the rest was simply about adjusting the physical appearance a bit, right? Yes, we had problems with my chest, because it's difficult to cover it without it hurting for a long time, right? Compressing the chest hurts, it really hurts. For me, that was the most, let's say, the most painful part of playing Manitas, because the hours of makeup were spent mostly watching them put on the makeup. I have a time-lapse video of that process, and maybe one day I can share it, but only when the film is released and everything is over.
But, you know, it hurt me more to play Emilia because I wore a corset to look thinner, and it compressed my stomach a lot more than anything else. There wasn't a day when I wasn't uncomfortable because of the compression. It was very difficult to sing with both, but even without the corset and the other thing, I would still have to record the songs many times, adjusting the reverb to the maximum, and having Camilo's voice as a guide. Because the songs are very difficult. There are a lot of things you can't do perfectly, no matter how much training you have. I thank them because I can't believe how I sound in the film.
What importance does this film and this role have for you as a trans person?
For me, personally, it's huge because it's the best role I have ever played in my life. I don't like to praise my work, I'm very self-critical, I always think what I did is wrong. But for the first time in my life, I believe there's nothing I would change about my character. All the scenes I did, the takes you see in the movie, I think they are in the right place. It's the first time I see myself on screen and don't think, "Why did I do that?" So, I am very proud that Jacques let me create this character.
And obviously, in terms of its relevance for trans people, I think it has much more importance than we realize right now. The debate has already started again, and it hasn't even been released yet. Only two or three thousand people who attended the Cannes festival have seen it. The debate is already on the streets. So, imagine how much it will help to see a person playing this character, succeeding, and showing that it is possible to move forward.
This movie will give hope to so many people. It's not that people will watch and say, "I want to be trans." You want to be whatever you want to be in life. I watched many movies and didn't want to be Robocop or Terminator, even though I liked them. But I didn't want to be Terminator, I just enjoyed the character. So, I think there are many very bad people.
Discrimination, violence, and fear—this film will certainly open eyes.
It will open many eyes. Most people in the world are good and want to evolve. We have to trust in our species, despite all our flaws. I trust in our species and evolution. I see many more good people who want to evolve than bad ones. But it's always the same: the few bad ones, those who hate, those who are afraid—because what they fear is that their ego won't be above others.
The human tendency is to focus more on the bad than the good. Even I am guilty of it. People always ask me why I respond to the malicious people and not to the good ones.
There were many times when people asked why I responded to hateful comments and not to those who loved me and said nice things. I say, I do respond to you all. Maybe not always, but I do respond. But I really think that at some point, you realize that it’s impossible to reason with some people. They just don't have the mental capacity to understand, so it’s better for them to figure it out themselves. But I am a bit of a fighter, I like to fight.
Today, I was about to get into a fight over a video posted by a Spanish radio station, where the typical comments had started. The usual ones like, "no matter what you do, you'll never be a woman," etc., and all the usual nonsense. It’s like they sound like parrots, repeating the same nonsense, one after another, in all countries and at all times. I already know the script because I’ve fought with half of Mexico and half of Latin America, and now I have to fight with half of Europe, not because I don't want to, but because I don't have the time.
Those few bad apples scream the loudest, right?
They make the loudest noise, but I think they need some affection. I have a little black cat and a white kitten. The black cat is a bit more mischievous, but what he needs is love. So, I think that's the issue; they lack love.
The film is very strong; it’s very painful for Emilia to leave her children.When you came out, how was it for you, for your family and friends? Was it difficult?
Look, if you're referring to when I transitioned, it was one of the most difficult and painful moments of my life. Even though they are your family, there is a huge upheaval. At one point, I didn’t know if I would ever see my daughter again. Luckily, my parents, who are in their eighties and should be the most old-fashioned, turned out to be the most open-minded people in the world and took it very well. But there was a circle around me—my life was complicated at that moment. I was at the brink of giving up because I couldn't take it anymore.
If I, who am strong, went through such a hard time, I can’t imagine how someone more vulnerable would cope. Many end up committing suicide or turning to drugs or living on the streets because society is cruel. Without family support, you hit rock bottom. But, as they say, after the storm comes the calm. Eventually, when things settle and everyone reflects, they realize that love prevails.
There is a lot of fear about what will happen next, what you will become, and what you will have to endure.
I’ve never deceived anyone in my life. I’ve always been honest with my partners from the start. I would tell them, "This is who I am." If they accepted it, fine. But saying it and doing it are different things. Then, facing all the insults and the wave of hateful people, it’s tough.
Were you already known at that time, a celebrity?
Yes, I was already known, so it wasn’t like I could go unnoticed. I knew I would face mockery, comments, and attitudes. If I had been an unknown person, maybe it would have been limited to my immediate circle. But it happens everywhere. What about the children in schools, or people who have to leave their jobs because they are teachers and get fired for being who they are?Each person has their circumstances.
For children and young people experiencing this trauma, and with the fear it entails, what advice do you have for them?
I can only ask the parents of children in similar situations to give them love and support. That's the only way to save humanity. What kind of parent are you if you abandon your child for being who they are? Unfortunately, some people prefer their children to be criminals rather than themselves.
But let’s move on to the movie. This film, what you are doing, I believe it’s wonderful. But you have a good relationship with your daughter, right?
Yes, my wife was in the living room, and my daughter is here doing her homework. That’s why I say that after the storm, there’s always calm. Children have no problem with anything; it’s the adults who worry. At first, people would ask, "What about the child?" But my daughter is very intelligent. Children are incredibly smart and adapt quickly. She never had any issues or negative comments. She is very fortunate with the life she has, receiving so much love and experiencing wonderful things.
You are Spanish, but this film is set in Mexico, a place with a lot of violence and families suffering from loss…
Yes, and Emilia also transforms from a violent crime boss. If all the cartel leaders and bad people in the world could watch this film and decide to change, wouldn’t that be wonderful? Imagine if instead of just watching the movie, they took it to heart and decided to change. The message of the film is that everyone can change for the better, no matter how bad things are.
And this issue in Mexico, It’s not exclusive to Mexico. In Spain, we still have people buried in unmarked graves from the Civil War and the Franco era.
Exactly, every day they are arguing among themselves about what to do with the remains, so it's not an exclusive issue. We're in Europe, in Spain, in 2024. It seems like it's a Latin American issue, something that doesn't concern us. But no, we are dealing with the same thing in a different way. And then, obviously, Mexico has its share of very bad people, just like everywhere else. But I think the film perfectly reflects that there are also people who want to help and who are wonderful, incredibly wonderful people.
And the majority of the population of the 100 million inhabitants in Mexico wants to move forward because otherwise, how would the country function? If everyone were bad, it wouldn't work. So hopefully, many will reflect and use what they have to change. I'm not saying they should change their gender or anything; everyone should do what they want with their body and life. But they should stop doing bad things and start doing something positive for humanity. That is much better.
We are at a point now where people have fixed ideas and cannot change or listen. E
Everything is divided into two, and it's madness. There is no one who says, "Let's focus and pick the good things from each side and put them in order." No, it's like you are either A or B, and you cannot have any different opinion if you are A or B. It's madness. It seems like a flock of sheep, where everyone follows without thinking about what they really want.
That’s what everyone wants, for people not to think. So, when they see something that makes them think, they get upset and say, "No, no, I believe this." It’s very dangerous. That's what's happening.
Yes, the film is very strong, showing that people are capable of change and can do something good. Karla, what projects do you have for the future? What do you want to do with your career and what’s happening?
For now, I’m very focused. I haven't accepted any new projects even though I've been called for some. I’m concentrating on the film because we have to wait until Saturday and cross our fingers to see what happens. If things happen, we’ll see where it takes us, and if not, we’ll do something else. I’m expectant and very focused. Obviously, I’d like to keep finding wonderful directors like Jacques. It’s very difficult; there are very few. But I know myself, and I’d love to do some action roles. I was talking with Zoe (Saladaña) the other day, and she said, "I want to do what you did with Emilia."
Because she always played other characters. I told her I’d love to do some action, play a villain in a Jason Statham film, or something with Quentin Tarantino. Something involving shooting, you know? Something fun, like what happened with Javier Bardem. I’d love to play a villain in a James Bond film, or with Tom Cruise, something like that, just to try it. I’ve always loved films. Some of my favorite movies are Return of the Jedi, Star Wars, all those Steven Spielberg and George Lucas films. I really want to attend one of their galas.
But are you returning on Saturday?
They asked me, "Are you sure you want to come back if you don't win a prize?" I said, "Yes, yes, I don't mind." So, I’m going back. If we’re not nominated, I’ll just take a walk around town. I couldn’t do that these days (during the festival).
But I have no illusions about meeting anyone, except George Lucas. I studied electronics when I was young, and I used to make lightsabers with fluorescent tubes. I remember breaking them and nearly electrocuting myself because of him. So, I really want to meet him, even if it’s just to ask for a photo.
Weird things happen to me. For example, I was at a dinner with the Sandogall team, and Salma Hayek was there, Julianne Moore, Cate Blanchett, and many others. I usually don’t approach people, but they came up to me saying they’ve seen my work and congratulated me. And I thought, "Wow, Julianne Moore is talking to me."
But you’re a star now!
I still can’t believe it, but I’m starting to see them as friends. It’s very funny, but I can’t get used to it.
Karla, this is just the beginning, and I have a feeling Saturday will go well. I
I hope so. We have a problem with this festival; I understand the rules, but it’s not normal that if you win the acting award, you can't win the best film award. It’s strange. I prefer it to be like the Oscars, where if someone delivers a great performance but the film isn't the best, they still get recognized for their acting.
I prefer the opposite of what Jacques prefers. He wants me to win the acting award, but I’d rather the film wins the best film award. It's a team effort. Without my co-stars, without the crew, without Camille Clemont's music, without Paul Gilmer's lighting, without everyone’s support, I wouldn't be here.
If they give me the award, I won’t refuse it, but I’d rather we all win. If not, it’s one less problem because my cats might knock it over. Anyway, if this all goes well, I hope we can meet again for more interviews. You are lovely, and thank you so much.
It’s been an honor. I’m so happy to talk to you and about this film. Good luck on Saturday; I’m rooting for you.
Thank you very much, dear. A pleasure. Goodbye.
Many thanks to Carla Sofía Gascón. The film Emilia Pérez will be released soon. Follow Pop Culture Confidential on Spotify, Apple Podcast. Thank you for being with us. Until next time.